defensive growth, defensive growth, as you say, is health care, is tapels, parts of the media, parts of the technology space, as well, clearly defensive growth. and then the other part of the bar bell, we want to take advantage of some of those attractive valuations in equities and in europe. we would rather go into financials selectively and look at those insurance companies, those banks, as well, which is perhaps have sold off more in the market than the recent pullback and look at all of those companies which have improving or strong capital positions. and you end up looking at some of the german insurers and the swiss bank. they look pretty strong for us. >> jonathan, thanks very much for that. . >>> today is also worldwide -- in china, "worldwide exchange" in china day. i'm in hong kong because i've just spent the weekend at the china entrepreneur's club annual meeting of green companies in china. i've just come back from there and the china entrepreneur's club is a group 50, 51 of the leading ceos of the private companies. around $300 billion in revenue is what those combined companies have. one